[Menydh]

Originally Posted by bombadillo

There may be something in that. The other EU countries have tended to see Spain and Italy as the soft underbelly of Europe, relatively easy for migrants -- illegal or on temporary visas -- to get access to, and from there move on to Northern Europe. The people in Mediterranean Europe have also tended to have a more relaxed attitiude to migration (though perhaps this has now changed?). It is fiendishly difficult to get, say, a German or British visa.

This is highly subjective.

While it is true that the decision of Spanish PM Zapatero to regularize all illegal immigrants in Spain provoked an infamous "call effect" from Africa, it is also true that (at least until fairly recently) most sub-Saharan African and much North African immigration entered Spain via the Pyrenees, ie. through Europe. This, however, does not take the infamy away from Zapatero's provoked "call effect", since it is largely a result of it too.

Whatever the case, one must absolutely take into account that the distance that separates the Iberian and Italian peninsulas from the African continent may be easily be saved on small boats. With this in mind, it is more difficult to justify the immigrant base in countries in Central Europe, which are geographically more protected, and not to speak of countries which are theoretically safely isolated, like those in the British Isles or in the Scandinavian peninsula.

Spain and Portugal still have some links with South America (which is probably not the main culprit as far as migration is concerned), so it may be relatively easy for an Argentine or Chilean to get a visitor visa for Spain. But this is probably not the problem

It is a problem.

Unlike in any other European countries, Muslim immigrants in Spain are not the main group of invasion but they are second to South Americans. I believe that the numbers of Muslims in Portugal is even lower.

You don't see many Chileans, if any at all. As for Argentines, many of them have not arrived in Spain with a Spanish visa, but through Italy and with an Italian visa or even an Italian passport.

The previous Liberal government before the current Socialist one, had the idea to promote the immigration from South American countries in detriment of the immigration from Muslim countries. Most people will argue that this would be better. However true in part, it also brings the problem of an ease in assimilationist policies.

Originally Posted by Seekers

Practically all immigrants come in search of a better life, and usually they get it at the expense of the indigenous population. There's even scientific work that proves it: Exit Folkhemssverige : en samhällsmodells sönderfall (9187028026) av Ingrid Björkman - AdLibris Bokhandel. The risks they take I don't claim to know much about, but I assume that they vary from none to their very life.

The idea which many of them have in mind before arriving in Europe is that, here, money grows on the trees and you only have to extend your arm to pick it. Which is right in part, if you live in one slum in Mogadishu and change that for a life of social benefits paid by the state.

Therefore it matters little if we managed to improve the quality of life in their countries, because the alternative the way they believe it is, would still make it worth it for them to keep coming.

Well I don't know exactly how it works in Spain. But here they are practically given jobs, while natives have to fight for them.

We are in a moment which I would call of inter-periods. Ask this question again in about 6 months time and I will be able to give you a more precise answer.