[Tennyson]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

So you are some kind of a theocrat a la Islam, as I can see.

To you the separation of the Church and the State (Give Caesar what is Caesar's) does not apply, like it doesn't apply to Hebrewists and Islamists. Interesting.

Churches have had the liberty to decide what kind of marriages they choose to bless, at least until very recent times.

The Catholic Church does not perform gay marriages and it had the liberty not to perform interracial marriages.

Source, please.

I quote a doctoral dissertion:

"Here I present differences in Catholic and Protestant theologies of marriage. I contend that the Catholic Church viewed marriage between Christians as a sacrament and thus as the purview of the Church, whereas Protestants vested the state with authority to regulate marriage and thus upheld the state’s “right” to prohibit intermarriage."

Botham CGU Dissertation Grant Proposal

Do you disagree that whites and natives entered into Catholic marriages already in the 16th and 17th century? It seems to be obvious that they did so due to the extent of the miscegenation that happened.

Again, source.

"This chapter examines Catholic and Protestant theologies of race. I argue that Catholics emphasized human unity, based upon biblical traditions of Adam and Eve as the progenitors of all races, while Southern Protestants derived a theology of divinely created “separate” races from the “Noah’s curse” story in Genesis. The Catholic theology of race thus posited human unity as the basis for interracial relations, while the Southern Protestant tradition perceived a divine mandate for racial segregation, particularly in marriage."
Botham CGU Dissertation Grant Proposal

While the source does not exactly validate the categorical statement in my previous post it certainly validates the existence of a major discrepancy in the racial views of the churches. In the 1800s and early 1900s Protestant churchmen who would perform an interracial marriage were very rare in the US.

And yes, the views of the American churches also reflected the views of the Vatican.

This is indeed true, and it is surely related to the fact that Christianism does break away with any idea of a "chosen people".

Protestantism, on the other hand, adopts chosenitism as in its origins there is a judaisation through an increased relevance of the OT.

It is therefore not surprising that many Protestant churches subscribe to the idea of being God's Chosen People, and the descendents of such or such other Israelite tribe.

I'm actually amazed that you even get to eat pork. But there is little doubt that many Protestant churches are mentally (or ideologically) circumcised.

That adds to the list of your by now many fallacies.

The Catholic Church asserts that Judaism is valid and provides salvation to the Chosen people whereas mainstream Protestant Churches in Europe deny that Jews can reject Christ and be saved.

Which church is judaized?

It has not been in Spain, it has not been in Ireland, it has not been in France, it has not been in Croatia, it has not been in Serbia, it has not been in Russia, it has not been in Bulgaria, it has not been in Belarusia, it has not been in Poland, it has not been in... pretty much most of Europe.

Were you educated in a Jesuit school?

This is more of your fallacious arguments.

If there have been clashes between Rome and kings or emperors throughout history in Europe, the latter represented states (kingdoms, empires) and not nations.

Something that I'm sure that you were aware of it, since I do not have you for an ignorant. Therefore I must conclude that your distortion of equating states to nations to defame Catholicism --a distortion of the truth-- is ill-intentioned.

Where did you learn to distort the truth with such shameless?

The facts mentioned sum up the view Swedish (and later Finnish) historiography has of the Popes.

I did not refer to "clashes between states" but clashes between nations which desired liberty and the Catholic monarchs supported by the Pope.

The Catholic establishment exemplified by Metternich resented nationalism as much as liberalism. He described ethnic nationalism as a "disorder" which could cause a revolution tearing apart (IMO delegitimate) multinational states such as Austria-Hungary.

What would you know? I'm afraid that the ices had not yet retreated from Finland at that time.

For your information, if by the "imperialist state like Spain" you refer to the dominions in the Low Countries, that was a German issue in which Spain had no interest.

For your information, it was British Protestant Imperialism which opressed and attempted to anihilate the Irish nation: 1649-52: Cromwell\'s conquest of Ireland & The Plantations through modern times (An Gorta Mór: The Great Irish Famine ) and to this day.
As it was the Highlands Clearances: Culloden - The Jacobites
All Protestant backed attempts of genocide against European nations, with a distinctive Protestant flavour.

There are more. And many more if we add non European nations, only paralleled by the actions of the state of Israel in Palestina.

I wonder how many more falllacious statements are you still going to launch in the name of Protestantism, Lutheranism, Evangelism or whatever you wish to call it.

Austria-Hungary and the Catholics did actively oppose the formation of the German nation-state. While the loyalty of Catholics belongs to the Pope Martin Luther stressed obedience to the state.

The German Catholic Church has always been multicultural, the German Lutheran Church was nationalist. Although Hitler was a Catholic more Lutherans than Catholics voted for him.

BTW, Article 19 of the Austro-Hungarian constitution stated:
All races of the empire have equal rights, and every race has an inviolable right to the preservation and use of its own nationality and language. The equality of all customary languages ("landesübliche Sprache") in school, office and public life, is recognized by the state. In those territories in which several races dwell, the public and educational institutions are to be so arranged that, without applying compulsion to learn a second country language ("Landessprache"), each of the races receives the necessary means of education in its own language.

I don't like the concept of multicultural Catholic empires in which "all races have equal rights".