[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Dux

Prometheus, would Slovenes and Croatians agree on returning to a Yugoslavian Federation? Well, add to that comparison, the fact that cultural differences between Portugal and Spain are not that shallow and, for an instance, the languages are not that mutually inteligible.

You are comparing pears to apples. Spain (the territories of modern Portugal included) was a nation before Portugal ever existed. You are not defining a nation, you are defining a modern republican state derived from an old kingdom (state).

The reality is that my father doesn't understand almost a word of Spanish (Castillian one should say), nor my mother, nor my brother, nor most of my friends, nor the great majority of our population except those living near the borders. Written is easier, alright. Same thing goes for Spain: When I travel through Spain, no one understands me, even if I speak slowly.

Yes, one should say Castillian. And what you say is simply not true. I have travelled extensively through Portugal, and I've had no problem with the Portuguese understanding me when I spoke in Castillian. Also, my sister is married to a Portuguese and they live near Lisbon, so I do know well what I'm saying.

Further to it, I've had close family friends from Portugal since even before my sister met her husband, and they are indeed of a different opinion to yours. In fact, it was one of those Portuguese who first told me about the Iberian Re-Union.

Take no offense here, but I must absolutely say that the common distrust between the Portuguese and the Castillians is in actual fact the product of a mutual ignorance on both sides. Iberism (which I prefer to call Hispanicism) is a much intellectual quality, unfortunately not yet fit for the ignorant masses.

Even if we are practically of the same ethnic composition, do you think people will throw away 879 years of sovereignity?

Wait until you hear what the model of a Hispanic/Iberian reunion must be. You are, like most of the masses, deceived by the definition of Spain as a state, not as a nation which she should be. I'll state my case in my next post.

With exception for those 60 years of shared Monarchy (1580 - 1640) which we did not particularly enjoyed, we are the oldest European fully independent nation state, and that didn't happen by random or historical mistake. And we were pushed onto further 28 years of war, because Spain wouldn't leave us on our own.

You forget much of your ancient history which established Spain (Spania) as the first established nation which was the result of the political, territorial and laws union started by Leuwegild and which was culminated in the religious union by Rekhared.

But we won our cause, and we thank God we don't have identitarian problems. The truth is Spain didn't solve its national issues, and we did, long ago.

You do have problems of identity, but the truth is that you suffocate it by denying the Portuguese the right to their full identity. Portugal is a jacobine state where the identity of the Gallaecia Braccarensis, the identity of the Lusitania and the identity of the South are suffocated.

Now you might like to deny this as something of the past, but the truth is that to anyone who knows Portugal those differences are still much alive.

Originally Posted by Dux

Yes, like there are many intra-national cultures throughout Europe, which is no reason to engage in an European federation. Spain meaning the whole Peninsula is a thing from the past. Spain means the country in the Peninsula which doesn't includes Portugal.

Wrong. That is Spain the state, not Spain the nation.

It means a country with intra-national problems, with a history orbiting Madrid, a history of loyalism v.s. nationalism. It means Galicians who don't speak a word of Galician, for an instance. Fortunately, my ancestors were never forbidden of speaking Portuguese.

I don't recall Galicians ever being forbidden to speak Galician. Like in Valencia and elsewhere, Castillian became the Lingua Franca.

Anyway, your language-based "nationalism" is of the same nature as those who call themselves nationalists here in Valencia, in Catalonia or in Galicia, and who would accept a North African who spoke the language as part of their idea of "nation". Incidentally I spoke a few weeks ago to one who is in the local government here and who, when I asked him about the ethnic issue in their so-called nationalism, he excused himself telling me... "but on my father's side it is all Andalusians"!!!!!

Language is not a mere formality. Is the way you think. Language is Thought. Language is A barrier. If Castillian was my language, I'd gladly approve a Iberian Union.

Castillian is more mutually intellegible with Portuguese, than Catalan is with any. In fact the big language division in the Peninsula is western (Portuguese, Castillian, Galician, ...) and eastern (Catalan, Aragonese?). Basque being an isolate case.

False patriotism? That is what we have heard many times from London, Madrid, Paris, Moscow, Beijing. Capitals of imperialism. As I've said, Spain meaning the whole Peninsula is not up to date anymore.

Madrid capital of imperialism? While the political structuration of modern Spain still falls short to what it should be, it is fair to say that the level of territorial autonomy is something that the Northern Portuguese cannot even dream of under the "imperialist" design of Lisbon.

Please, do not sell false delusions. Lisbon (Portugal) is one of the most oppresive jacobine states. It is a miracle that the Northern Portuguese still keep some of their identity.