[Susi]

Originally Posted by Milesian

Meaning?

Just because the English oppressed the Irish doesn't mean that they're completely innocent of any wrongdoings.

Are you referring to James I?
I see where you are coming from but that's a bit of a historical red herring.
The Act of Union took place after the Stuart Dynasty had been deposed.
The reigning monarch at the time of the establishment of the UK was Dutch.

*throws out history book*.

You don't stop being guilty (I think responsible is a more pleasant word) of something because a period of time has elapsed.

The feeling lessens, in my opinion. Or some people don't feel guilt at all. It's how it is.

For instance, if someone is convicted of murder then they do not ever stop being responsible of that act. What happens is that they are punished for a set length of time (unless the death penalty is in effect ) and then they are set free once they have done their time. But they don't ever stop being responsible for that crime.

But what does this example have anything to do with the national guilt of the English? Certainly your average Englishman is no more responsible for the actions of the British parliament than your average Scot (who is also, might I add, a member of the Union ).

So I think the English should not be eternally punished for something that they have apologised and made some effort for reconcilliation for (still waiting on this )

Okay. But you think they should be punished for a really, really long time, right? :\

but I don't think they should be allowed to shirk responsibility for centuries of what basically amounts to genocide - whether in Ireland or wherever else their Imperial designs took them in the world.

Because you know, it was solely the English who did this. Only the stupid, imperial, inbred English who went around the world having colonies. Of course, the English were the only influence in the Union as well. Right?

I don't say that the English did no wrong. But the other members of the Union (which should still be abolished..) and the Republic of Ireland have to take some guilt for things that they have done as well. What about all those people that Irish terrorism killed? Most of them were just civilians. How is that not as equally wrong as the English killing Irish people? Or is it justified because the Irish were fighting the hand of Imperialism of the average Englishman?

To be honest, I think that you'l find that the vast majority of Irish people don't want any kind of compensation. Most don't even want an apology. They just want to be left alone.

Then how are the English (and just the English, right, because no Welshman or Scot ever joined the British army...) supposed to reconcile themselves with the Irish if they don't want to accept an apology?

I don't think they paint a victim mentality anymore than the British propoganda merchants with their images of evil Republican terrorists killing innocent British squaddies who are just making an honest living

Or killing innocent British (sorry, English) civilians? The Irish almost exploded my mother. And that doesn't make me feel really sympathetic to the Republican cause.


You would be right


Why would I do that? I don't want your guilt.....even if you actually were English

I'm not sure where I gave the impression that I want English people to walk around feeling individually guilty. Seems to be a recurrent strawman.


Westminister?


This is the crux of the problem. They don't, neither have they tried to set things right. in fact a report by their top brass fairly recently re-emphasised their traditional stance. That they could never forsee a situation where they would ever willingly disengage from Ireland.


Only for the repentent


Yes, exactly.[/quote]